drumnbass.be forum
Register Members List Team Members Search Frequently Asked Questions Go to the Main Page

drumnbass.be forum » Production » Production questions & answers » Mastering » Loudness War » Hello Guest [Login|Register]
Last Post | First Unread Post Print Page | Recommend to a Friend | Receive email on new post
Pages (2): [1] 2 next » Post New Thread Post Reply
Go to the bottom of this page Loudness War
Author
Post « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Ketz Ketz is a male
Thinking outside the box...


images/avatars/avatar-2874.png

Registration Date: 10-10-2007
Posts: 2,865

Helpfulness rating: 
14 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.86

Loudness War Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

what are your thoughts on this guys? being relatively new to mastering I've done a bit of reading up on the whole thing and through my own experience with trying to get things really "loud" just to compete with stuff thats already out there can be quite frustrating.

Some interesting stuff you can find here:

http://www.turnmeup.org/

So I'm pretty much in favour of dynamics that can bring much more life to tracks as opposed to getting things as loud / overcompressed as possible but it just seems that things are heading that way..?

edit: check out the "loudness war" utube vid on there, clearly shows the difference

__



This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Ketz: 26-02-2009 20:14.

26-02-2009 20:00 Send an Email to Ketz Homepage of Ketz Search for Posts by Ketz Add Ketz to your Buddy List
optikal_assassin optikal_assassin is a male
|da jungle snipa|


images/avatars/avatar-3214.jpg

Registration Date: 18-07-2005
Posts: 582

Helpfulness rating: 
4 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

well, me personally, just as a matter of personal taste i like my music loud and overcompressed, within reason of course. i'd even take overcompressed music and leave the overall volume down too. it's just my personal taste though, not saying it's right but it has to also be within reason as i have said.

__
Jungle Snipa on MySpace
26-02-2009 21:39 Send an Email to optikal_assassin Search for Posts by optikal_assassin Add optikal_assassin to your Buddy List
GoogleGoogle is female
Ad Producer


lots of money

Registration Date: 06-06-2005
Posts: a million

  Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator Go to the top of this page

06-06-2006 06:66 Search for Posts by Google Add Google to your Buddy List Send a Private Message to Google
Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male
Zombie Algorithm


images/avatars/avatar-2869.gif

Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160

Helpfulness rating: 
36 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.67

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

it's all based on genere and actaul goal. i have known mixers that sending out the music to be mastered couldn't be there for the mastering because of conflicts, and they made the music more bright, even though the goal for the album was to have a bit darker of a mix. when it comes to it, it's all based on the direction and genere. you won't see the loudness war with diana krull music, but ketty perre will be there.

__
Latest Songs of filth and taboo depravity
SpankMyFilth on SoundCloud
She's got a nasty mouth...
FREE DOWNLOADS

27-02-2009 00:16 Send an Email to Halph-Price Homepage of Halph-Price Search for Posts by Halph-Price Add Halph-Price to your Buddy List
Sephiroth Sephiroth is a male
Master Producer


images/avatars/avatar-3285.jpg

Registration Date: 11-04-2006
Posts: 741

Helpfulness rating: 
3 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 10.00

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

i guess it depends on what your producing and what your up against i suppose....pop music should generally be o'ver-compressed' and pushing the limits to compete with its rivals and to stand out on the radio against other popular tracks etc...i personally prefer to push things a little but to always leave a little headroom, darker dnb is generally very bass heavy so pushing things too far will probably render unwanted results and sound pretty crap....then again i suppose it all depends on what your creating and personal preference......i think the whole loudness thing is debated far too much anyways....a great mix will sound great wherever and whenever..... Big Grin

__
Sephiroth Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/sephiroth_rees

Sephiroth Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/sephirothdnb

C-Sonix Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/c-sonix

C-Sonix Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/csonix
27-02-2009 00:16 Send an Email to Sephiroth Homepage of Sephiroth Search for Posts by Sephiroth Add Sephiroth to your Buddy List
Ketz Ketz is a male
Thinking outside the box...


images/avatars/avatar-2874.png

Registration Date: 10-10-2007
Posts: 2,865

Helpfulness rating: 
14 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.86

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

yeah I suppose it comes down to what genre / sub genre, if we're talking dnb some sub genres can get away with much better than others and in many ways benefit from being loud / powerful / heavily compressed (eg Noisia Block Control is a tune that doesn't hasn't got very much dynamic range, but it still works as a big wall of sound)

__



27-02-2009 01:16 Send an Email to Ketz Homepage of Ketz Search for Posts by Ketz Add Ketz to your Buddy List
Sundancer Sundancer is a male
Cool Producer


images/avatars/avatar-2721.png

Registration Date: 27-09-2008
Posts: 120

Helpfulness rating: 
2 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 5.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

this definitely depends on the style. now, for drum'n'bass, a nicely compressed track will sound better at any level.

__
Add me up on MySpace (link changed): myspace.com/SundancerDnb
27-02-2009 09:41 Send an Email to Sundancer Homepage of Sundancer Search for Posts by Sundancer Add Sundancer to your Buddy List
D2o D2o is a male
Ghost


images/avatars/avatar-1834.gif

Registration Date: 30-05-2005
Posts: 2,545

Helpfulness rating: 
19 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.74

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

there is compressed then there is over compressed/limited where the waveform just looks like a solid block with less punch and dynamics which sadly, a lot is music is being subject too.

__
WWW.SOUNDCLOUD.COM/VOLATILE-PSYCLE

27-02-2009 10:09 Send an Email to D2o Homepage of D2o Search for Posts by D2o Add D2o to your Buddy List
Sephiroth Sephiroth is a male
Master Producer


images/avatars/avatar-3285.jpg

Registration Date: 11-04-2006
Posts: 741

Helpfulness rating: 
3 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 10.00

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost
there is compressed then there is over compressed/limited where the waveform just looks like a solid block with less punch and dynamics which sadly, a lot is music is being subject too.



very true....but what happens when its pushed as far as it can go? where will music like britney spears and the other commerical shite go? i dont know how it can change tbh, record labels are always going to want to make their act sound bigger and better than the next and make the cd's 'loud' to stand out.

I'd like to see an increase in surround sound mixing personally, i reckon that might change things and would open up a whole new breed of different music. Big Grin

__
Sephiroth Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/sephiroth_rees

Sephiroth Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/sephirothdnb

C-Sonix Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/c-sonix

C-Sonix Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/csonix
27-02-2009 11:05 Send an Email to Sephiroth Homepage of Sephiroth Search for Posts by Sephiroth Add Sephiroth to your Buddy List
Crispy Liquids Crispy Liquids is a male
Liquid Funkateer


images/avatars/avatar-3110.jpg

Registration Date: 22-05-2005
Posts: 251

Helpfulness rating: 
2 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

We use compressors simply because the dynamics would remain to some extent...
I mean, if you use a compressor, the initial loudness of that snare would still be there, that's why there's an attack and release on a compressor: it only comes in effect after x miliseconds.

So what the guy in the video is saying about those parts being removed, is not true, at least not for people who use a compressor with an attack greater than 0 ms...

I don't deny that loudness is a nasty creature though, I have a loudness button on my music system here (the one for listening to cd's), and what's so bad about it is the fact that your music sounds fine without it, any track, sounds really good. You put loudness on, and you think hmm maybe for certain occassions this could be good, but most of the time I prefer it off. You put it off, and you'll notice your track seems to sound worse than before putting it on! It seems that your ears (or brains) immediately make a switch that needs some time to overcome...

Strange but true.
I think one reason for excessive limiting is MP3-players, they come with these things to put in your ears and obviously you don't want to put those too loud (very bad for your ears), but they want you to hear the whole song nevertheless so they try to get all sounds out of those speakers at even low volume levels. It makes sense, but for other occassions it's rubbish

__
Crispy Liquids on Soundcloud Facebook Myspace
27-02-2009 12:23 Send an Email to Crispy Liquids Homepage of Crispy Liquids Search for Posts by Crispy Liquids Add Crispy Liquids to your Buddy List
Yawn Yawn is a male
Sponsor


images/avatars/avatar-2715.jpg

Registration Date: 25-01-2005
Posts: 1,185

Helpfulness rating: 
11 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.27

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Sephiroth
I'd like to see an increase in surround sound mixing personally, i reckon that might change things and would open up a whole new breed of different music. Big Grin


A big 8.1 surround sound system in a club would be amazing. With elements panning around the room, stabs coming in from you don't know where.....this is the future indeed. Big Grin
27-02-2009 12:41 Send an Email to Yawn Search for Posts by Yawn Add Yawn to your Buddy List
Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male
Andrejnalin


images/avatars/avatar-2169.jpg

Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197

Helpfulness rating: 
18 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

Over-compression, is generally, a relative term. But, by common wisdom, it applies to having too much compression (on the edge with, or having pumping and other artifacts of wrongly used compression), which kills the dynamics of the sound so it can give an overall bigger perceived loudness.

Usually, modern audio mastering engineers leave about 6 or 3dB for them to work with the more dynamic parts which need emphasize - like a snare or kick drum.

Audio mastering has become an art in itself because everybody just want louder and louder, and mastering engineers really have to invent hot water to make their client's tracks louder when there is no space for it.

The top 6dB is a small difference, but just enough for a loud track with an existent snare drum.

I am in favor of dynamics myself. I believe tracks should have about 10dB of space for free breath. But, unfortunately, when your tune gets played in a club, it will appear too quiet, and the dj will fix the loudness by forcing the gain, and thus compressing the track. With a bad compressor. Big Grin

__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:

http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473

There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
27-02-2009 12:59 Send an Email to Muad'Dib Homepage of Muad'Dib Search for Posts by Muad'Dib Add Muad'Dib to your Buddy List
GoogleGoogle is female
Ad Producer


lots of money

Registration Date: 06-06-2005
Posts: a million

  Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator Go to the top of this page

06-06-2006 06:66 Search for Posts by Google Add Google to your Buddy List Send a Private Message to Google
CULTURE BOY CULTURE BOY is a male
v v v iv a record missing


images/avatars/avatar-2361.jpg

Registration Date: 12-01-2007
Posts: 1,415

Helpfulness rating: 
6 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.83

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

this is one of the things i need help with Mad

__
www.myspace.com/cultureboydnb
soundcloud

27-02-2009 14:29 Send an Email to CULTURE BOY Homepage of CULTURE BOY Search for Posts by CULTURE BOY Add CULTURE BOY to your Buddy List
demure demure is a male
mastication fo de nation


images/avatars/avatar-2837.jpeg

Registration Date: 22-01-2009
Posts: 921

Helpfulness rating: 
2 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 10.00

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

i would say that loudness will come down to the individual track in the sence that 1 track may be really loud due to certain elements within the tune and as a result its better to boost the loudness up to a point in relation to the material in the song just basically not overdoing it but thats just how i work i try to get the dynamics right without compression then just give the master fader a lift till it sounds right. thats just me though and im a complete noob lolWink
27-02-2009 15:09 Send an Email to demure Search for Posts by demure Add demure to your Buddy List
Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male
Andrejnalin


images/avatars/avatar-2169.jpg

Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197

Helpfulness rating: 
18 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Yawn
quote:
Originally posted by Sephiroth
I'd like to see an increase in surround sound mixing personally, i reckon that might change things and would open up a whole new breed of different music. Big Grin


A big 8.1 surround sound system in a club would be amazing. With elements panning around the room, stabs coming in from you don't know where.....this is the future indeed. Big Grin

Yeah, that would be great for listening but... imagine what a hell that will be for mixing Devil

__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:

http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473

There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
27-02-2009 17:43 Send an Email to Muad'Dib Homepage of Muad'Dib Search for Posts by Muad'Dib Add Muad'Dib to your Buddy List
Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male
Zombie Algorithm


images/avatars/avatar-2869.gif

Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160

Helpfulness rating: 
36 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.67

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

and mono mixes will never die

__
Latest Songs of filth and taboo depravity
SpankMyFilth on SoundCloud
She's got a nasty mouth...
FREE DOWNLOADS

27-02-2009 19:14 Send an Email to Halph-Price Homepage of Halph-Price Search for Posts by Halph-Price Add Halph-Price to your Buddy List
Sephiroth Sephiroth is a male
Master Producer


images/avatars/avatar-3285.jpg

Registration Date: 11-04-2006
Posts: 741

Helpfulness rating: 
3 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 10.00

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
quote:
Originally posted by Yawn
quote:
Originally posted by Sephiroth
I'd like to see an increase in surround sound mixing personally, i reckon that might change things and would open up a whole new breed of different music. Big Grin


A big 8.1 surround sound system in a club would be amazing. With elements panning around the room, stabs coming in from you don't know where.....this is the future indeed. Big Grin

Yeah, that would be great for listening but... imagine what a hell that will be for mixing Devil


would be a nightmare to mix but software/ hardware developers would graudually create some amazing tools to aid surround sound mixing, problem is, as far as i know, only nuendo and pro tools hd support surround sound mixing....i think its defo in the pipeline for future development tho and over the years its gonna get more popular, that might slow down this whole loudness war debate by giving engineer + mixers a whole new approach to creating mixes.

__
Sephiroth Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/sephiroth_rees

Sephiroth Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/sephirothdnb

C-Sonix Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/c-sonix

C-Sonix Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/csonix
27-02-2009 20:20 Send an Email to Sephiroth Homepage of Sephiroth Search for Posts by Sephiroth Add Sephiroth to your Buddy List
Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male
Zombie Algorithm


images/avatars/avatar-2869.gif

Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160

Helpfulness rating: 
36 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.67

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE.

__
Latest Songs of filth and taboo depravity
SpankMyFilth on SoundCloud
She's got a nasty mouth...
FREE DOWNLOADS

27-02-2009 21:21 Send an Email to Halph-Price Homepage of Halph-Price Search for Posts by Halph-Price Add Halph-Price to your Buddy List
Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male
Andrejnalin


images/avatars/avatar-2169.jpg

Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197

Helpfulness rating: 
18 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Halph-Price
you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE.

Yeah, but you need a special room for that. With 8 speakers (or at least 4) you can have whatever room which has enough space to put them all about and on enough distance.

__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:

http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473

There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
27-02-2009 22:37 Send an Email to Muad'Dib Homepage of Muad'Dib Search for Posts by Muad'Dib Add Muad'Dib to your Buddy List
BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male
2161... the future.


images/avatars/avatar-3255.jpg

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating: 
40 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 8.70

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
quote:
Originally posted by Halph-Price
you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE.

Yeah, but you need a special room for that. With 8 speakers (or at least 4) you can have whatever room which has enough space to put them all about and on enough distance.


It can be emulated on headphones too AFAIK they have 2 speakers.

__
Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)
27-02-2009 23:14 Send an Email to BattleDrone Homepage of BattleDrone Search for Posts by BattleDrone Add BattleDrone to your Buddy List
Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male
Andrejnalin


images/avatars/avatar-2169.jpg

Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197

Helpfulness rating: 
18 Vote(s) - Average Rating: 9.50

Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

quote:
Originally posted by BattleDrone
quote:
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
quote:
Originally posted by Halph-Price
you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE.

Yeah, but you need a special room for that. With 8 speakers (or at least 4) you can have whatever room which has enough space to put them all about and on enough distance.


It can be emulated on headphones too AFAIK they have 2 speakers.

Yeah, I know, but they are too close to you, not affected by room shape, reverb etc.

__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:

http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473

There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
28-02-2009 00:07 Send an Email to Muad'Dib Homepage of Muad'Dib Search for Posts by Muad'Dib Add Muad'Dib to your Buddy List
GoogleGoogle is female
Ad Producer


lots of money

Registration Date: 06-06-2005
Posts: a million

  Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator Go to the top of this page

06-06-2006 06:66 Search for Posts by Google Add Google to your Buddy List Send a Private Message to Google
Pages (2): [1] 2 next » Tree Structure | Board Structure
Jump to:
Post New Thread Post Reply
drumnbass.be forum » Production » Production questions & answers » Mastering » Loudness War

Forum Software: Burning Board 2.3.6, Developed by WoltLab GmbH